Anthony Albanese is the Prime Minister. Good morning.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning. How are you, Raf?
HOST: I’m okay. When you first heard that it looked like someone had tried to shoot at Donald Trump, what did you think?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it wasn’t clear what had happened. I was watching an interview Jim Chalmers was doing and it was clear that something had occurred. But it took a few minutes for it to be clear that shots had been fired. It was certainly a great shock and it was very confronting, the images of the Secret Service personnel surrounding the former President and escorting him off the stage and to safety into the car. It was a shock to the system. We know that increasingly, United States politics has become very polarised. And tragically, there is a history, of course, of violence, including, of course, that the Kennedy family have suffered not once but twice.
HOST: Does it make you think about the risk to you at all?
PRIME MINISTER: Of course it does. And that’s just a fact. I had met Jo Cox, the British MP who was murdered in the UK. And that, of course, was a tragedy. It’s a great thing that in Australia, by and large, politicians, including the Prime Minister, can wander about events and can walk around safely. I was in Queensland last week for three days and certainly was in uncontrolled environments, to put it that way. But, of course, there is a heightened concern out there.
HOST: And does it add to the risk here if it happens there?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I certainly don’t think it lowers it. I think that the problem with some of these events is that they can almost be normalised. Different layers of violence can be seen as something that occurs. But of course, overwhelmingly here in Australia, we have a peaceful political process and we have peaceful transitions of power. I noticed in one of the articles this morning, Phil Coorey quoting Scott Morrison’s comments on election night, of respect for the democratic process. And that’s a good thing that we have here and it’s important that we don’t take it for granted. It’s important that democracy be cherished. It is our great asset and we need to look for unity wherever we can, look for respectful disagreement.
HOST: Just on looking for unity. And you use the words peaceful political process. Your Deputy PM’s office in Geelong has been covered in paint to look like blood. I think that’s happened to your Attorney-General’s office in Mordialloc. Your MP’s offices in Coburg, Thomastown, Preston – I think they had packages wrapped up to look like the bodies of babies. Your MP’s office in St Kilda had fires lit. Does that stuff worry you?
PRIME MINISTER: It does and I’ve called it out. And there needs to be a stop to it, because it is unacceptable. And, you know, people can express their views peacefully, but particularly with a conflict that’s taking place across the other side of the world where Australia are not participants, it’s hard to see what is to be gained except for alienating the general public.
HOST: That’s a different point. I guess I’m asking if the blood and the fake bodies of babies, is that anything similar to what we have seen in the United States?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, no. Look, I think we need to be very, very careful to draw a distinction between what is a violent act that we saw, for example, outside Josh Burns’ electorate office where that was very dangerous to light a fire. People live above that electorate office. The intimidation that’s occurred has not been good, but I don’t think we should draw a straight line between that and what we saw in the United States yesterday was, of course, a very different level. But it is a reminder. We just need to be able to have these discussions respectfully and based upon facts as well.
HOST: Anthony Albanese is with you on 774. Prime Minister, if I can turn to the CFMEU and the pretty explosive claims over the last three days in The Age and on 60 Minutes. One quarter of the donations, the union donations to the ALP, come from the CFMEU. Are you going to stop taking their donations?
PRIME MINISTER: Look, I have a very clear message for the CFMEU, which is they need to clean up their act. I have zero tolerance for it. The revelations that have been made in recent days need to be condemned in the strongest possible terms. The job of a union is to defend the wages and conditions of their members, to make sure as well on building sites – the construction industry is a dangerous industry – we want people to go home at night to their families and unions have an important role to play there. What this is, is a betrayal of those union members. If there are any breaches of the law, they need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent and people need to be held to account.
HOST: But do you trust the union to clean up their own shop?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, they’re on notice that certainly they need to do that, but also they’re on notice that we’ll take whatever action is appropriate. I mean, I have contempt for someone like John Setka. He has no legitimate role in the union movement. I expelled him from the Labor Party as one of my first acts within weeks of coming to office. And people might forget that he took us to court and then appealed the decision all the way.
HOST: Look, he’s denied all of the allegations against him, he’s gone now, but be that as it may, I want to know what you think that union has done, what have they done that makes you at all confident they can actually clean up their own affairs?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, his going needs to be the beginning, not the end, of the cleaning up. Because quite clearly there are systemic issues in that union –
HOST: If it’s systemic, why do you trust them to clean it up?
PRIME MINISTER: I’m not saying I do. We’ll look at what action we can take and nothing is off the table. We will take whatever action is appropriate. But where there are breaches of the law, such as people offering bribes, those people need to be prosecuted by the law. That’s not a political decision, that’s a legal one. That’s one that requires people to be in the dock, frankly. And if they’re engaged in that behaviour, they need to be prosecuted fully and we certainly support that.
HOST: If you’re talking about everything being on the table, wouldn’t you also put a pause on accepting their donations? If it’s an organisation that you think everything needs to be looked at, including further police investigation, there’s already been a fair bit. Why would you continue to accept their money?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, everything is on the table, including whether the union continues to be able to operate, whether administrators will be placed into the union and all of that is completely on the table.
HOST: So, both deregistration of the Construction Division and not accepting their donations, they are both possible?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, everything’s possible. What we will see over coming days is further revelations. I don’t want to pre-empt those and spoil the hard work that’s gone into this research. No doubt there will be further revelations which have been foreshadowed. But what already has been exposed is shocking, is inappropriate, is breaches of the law. And the full force of the law needs to be brought to bear, because it is tragic that overwhelmingly the people who are working on construction sites around Australia are hardworking Australians. They shouldn’t be tainted by this sort of corrupt behaviour.
HOST: But we have known about this for some time. Isn’t it a bit embarrassing that you wait to act once the media – I mean, it’s great media work, right? It’s great journalism. But isn’t it a bit embarrassing for the Government and police that it requires the media to do this work?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, authorities are in place. With respect Raf, when people are breaking the law, we have authorities and a separation of powers, and they should be held to account. It is an indictment of the leadership of the CFMEU that they haven’t been held to account. I noticed that one of the key whistleblowers, if you like, the Assistant ³Ô¹ÏÍøÕ¾ Secretary of the Manufacturing Division, has said that there are rules in the union that have been breached and that they need to be reinforced. What we’ve seen just a week ago, I make this point, that we introduced and carried legislation in both Houses of Parliament to allow the Manufacturing Division, that includes the old timber workers union and the clothing trade union, to break away. The Mining and Energy Union have broken away from the Union as a direct result of legislation that was passed through the Parliament. We supported all of that legislation, so did the Coalition. The Greens political party opposed that legislation. It’s up to them to explain why they did that.
HOST: I wanted to ask you about some breaking news, Prime Minister. The CFMEU’s ³Ô¹ÏÍøÕ¾ Executive have just placed the Victorian Branch of the union into Administration. What’s your reaction to that?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that’s a good thing. That’s a good next step. But we need further action and we need to make sure that that results in an isolation and both action in terms of the law, but also action within the Union. This is an indictment of the Labour Movement, I know that over a period of time, the fact that unions within the CFMEU have broken away from them shows the isolation which they are held. I know the ACTU leadership as well will be shocked and horrified by this behaviour.
HOST: Just in response to that breaking news, if the Victorian Branch has been placed into Administration, does that also mean the Labor Party should pause receiving donations from the Victorian Branch of the CFMEU?
PRIME MINISTER: Look, those matters, as you know, are a matter for the organisational wing –
HOST: Oh, come on – you’re the Prime Minister, you’re the Labor Party Prime Minister. You must have a view on that.
PRIME MINISTER: I doubt whether the CFMEU are buying a raffle ticket at the moment. I doubt whether that is occurring. So, the truth is that we’ll take whatever action is required. That’s something that I’ve been prepared to do, to take strong action in isolating John Setka. As I said, I was Leader of the Labor Party for a matter of weeks – not months – before I took action.
HOST: Couldn’t you take a similar moral stand and just say, we won’t take money from the Victorian division right now?
PRIME MINISTER: And there was corruption, and there was corruption in the Victorian Parliament. We intervened and suspended the entire operation of the Victorian Branch, under my leadership, you might recall. And we expelled people from the Labor Party who were Ministers in the Government. So, I’ve never been found short in acting. As Leader of the Labor Party, I intervened into both the Victorian Branch and the New South Wales Branch to clean them up and as a result they’re better places today.
HOST: I appreciate your time this morning, Prime Minister. Thanks a lot.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks, Raf.
