The Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, joins you on the program. Good morning.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, Raf. Good to be with you.
EPSTEIN: Can I start with the Pacific Islands Forum? Did you lead to the distraction? They overheard you saying something to the US. Is that your fault or the journalist’s fault?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, look. It’s not really relevant from the issue, really. We had a discussion. I said it was a cracker of an announcement, which it was. The Pacific Policing Initiative will mean that Pacific police from Fiji and the Solomons and Vanuatu and other nations get training in Brisbane at a headquarters, that’s the first part of it. The second, is four Centres of Excellence, including one in Papua New Guinea. And the third part is that we’ll have, if you like, a multinational force or group that can be got together at very short notice, which will be able to help when there’s a natural disaster or when there’s a big event coming up, like, for example, CHOGM. There’s going to be substantial security required in Samoa with the King and leaders of all of the Commonwealth countries gathering there in October. And so having that consistency, interoperability, will mean that all of the police forces can be more effective. And we know that security is such a major issue, including in the Pacific. But in addition, of course, the Pacific, unfortunately, has a range of natural disasters. There were a couple of earthquakes in Tonga during the Pacific Islands Forum meeting. So it was a real success. This is Pacific led. Our police force and our Commissioner Kershaw deserves a great deal of credit for what we’ve done there.
EPSTEIN: The Census questions. The briefing with the Bureau of Statistics on Monday was cancelled. Your Deputy Prime Minister and Murray Watt, and other of your ministers, both said there wouldn’t be a new question. Why?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we’ve been talking with the Australian Bureau of Statistics and they’re going to test for a new question. One question about sexuality, sexual preference. They’ll be testing, making sure as well that people will have the option of not answering it – prefer not to answer. But we think that is a common sense position to be put –
EPSTEIN: Sorry, Prime Minister, to interrupt. There will be a sexuality preference, sexuality or sexual preference question in the Census?
PRIME MINISTER: Yes, there will, as long as the testing goes okay, and a question can be developed in a way that is sensitive and that gets the information that is required, and the ABS will be testing that. There’s a draft question that has been developed this week, which they will go and test and see if that’s possible.
EPSTEIN: So, why the back down?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, there’s no – this is the first time I’ve been asked about it. What there isn’t going to be is holus-bolus massive changes to the Census, because we think that it’s been pretty effective in the past, and for a range of issues the Census isn’t the right vehicle to engage with the community across a whole range of issues. It’s not the be all and end all. The world has changed with the Census. We now have data collection in a range of ways, including on our phones and through Facebook and through the range of vehicles that are available, as we know.
EPSTEIN: Can I just come back to the question that will be tested. So, that will invite people to indicate their sexuality or their sexual preference? I assume that the ABS is going to settle on some wording.
PRIME MINISTER: Correct.
EPSTEIN: The LGBTQI community are pretty angry with your Government. What do you say to them?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that my Government and the Labor Party is the political vehicle, that has changed, last time we were in Government, more than 80 pieces of legislation to remove discrimination, that we believe in every Australian being respected regardless of their sexuality or who they are, regardless of their race or religion –
EPSTEIN: But it does appear like your Government had to be bludgeoned into including the question, because your ministers didn’t say this week the question would be there.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that’s not because – we’re talking about 2026, Raf.
EPSTEIN: The year after the election.
PRIME MINISTER: There is two years until this survey goes out. There were proposals for wide ranging changes in the Census and that has been rejected because we think that that’s not appropriate. But in 2024, or 2026, the world has changed as well. It used to be, as you know, Raf, it wasn’t – people’s sexuality wasn’t as open or as accepted as it is today. And therefore the Census, in terms of modernising, reflecting some of the changed values which are there, by asking a question, I think that people would think that was a pretty common sense outcome.
EPSTEIN: So I think that is a bit of a, I’ll call that breaking news or a change. A sexuality preference or sexuality question will be tested and will be included in the Census. That is in 2026. An election has to be held by next year. The Census comes the year after that. Prime Minister, are you concerned that you’re not meeting people where they are when it comes to the economy? There is still clearly a lot of dissatisfaction with prices, with the availability of housing. It doesn’t look like you’ve convinced people you’ve done enough.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, cost of living is a global phenomenon, the pressure which is there. It was a topic of discussion, certainly, at the Pacific Islands Forum. Countries there have suffered. The President of Palau was telling me about – they hit double digit inflation, which was quite common, including in the UK. I spoke to the UK’s Assistant Foreign Minister –
EPSTEIN: People are unhappy in Australia with what you have done.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we are dealing with a global phenomenon and what we are seeing is that inflation has been cut in half. The figure this week showed a further moderating of inflation down to 3.5 per cent. That is a good thing. Does more need to be done? Yes, it does. But my Government is assisting in cost of living, with energy price relief, with cheaper child care, with Fee Free TAFE, and of course importantly, for tax cuts for every single Australian taxpayer, not just some, which is what the former Government’s policy –
EPSTEIN: Are people feeling what you are delivering?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, look, you’re the commentator. What my job is to do is to do my best to provide cost of living relief, which is our priority, whilst putting downward pressure on inflation. And that is what we have been focused on. That’s why we made decisions such as changing the tax cuts. We’re seeing real wages increasing. We’ve also targeted particular areas, such as the 15 per cent increase for child care workers coming off the back of the significant increase in the pay of aged care workers as well, so that those people who look after our youngest Australians and our oldest Australians get proper compensation for their contribution. So, you deal with these global challenges with supply chain issues, the long tail of COVID, impacts of global conflict, are all there. They are being felt by Australians. And I understand that. My job is to do what I can. And this week we have also found out that the Coalition have $100 billion of cuts planned, including cuts, of course, to the Housing Australia Future Fund. I mean, in what world do you make cuts to support for housing policy when you have a shortage of housing supply, such as we have in Australia? Well, that is Peter Dutton’s plan.
EPSTEIN: Prime Minister, I want to return to that Census question. Someone’s texted this, “I think Albanese back-flipped on the Census about three or four times within that one interview. How have they made such a mess out of a simple question?” So, that’s some of the commentary that’s coming through, PM. But I just really want to try and clarify something. The Treasurer, the Deputy Prime Minister, your new ³Ô¹ÏÍøÕ¾ Affairs Minister, they’ve all been asked about that Census question this week. They have all said there would not be a new question. You have said there will be a new question about sexuality. I know that you like to – you pride yourself on being plain speaking. That is a back down. That is a change, isn’t it?
PRIME MINISTER: There will be a question in the Census if it is successfully tested by the Australian Bureau of Statistics. My Government has been focused on the issues that we’ve just been discussing – cost of living. We haven’t sat down and gone through line by line what questions will be asked in the Census in two years’ time in 2026. That’s the job of the ABS.
EPSTEIN: Final question. Does it matter who wins the American election?
PRIME MINISTER: Of course it matters. America matters in the world and its place in the world, its place in our region. It is, of course, the largest economy in the world. So, it matters. They’re a major trading partner for Australia, but they’re also our major security partner as well.
EPSTEIN: Does it make a difference to whatever submarines we receive?
PRIME MINISTER: No. I think the AUKUS arrangements are in place and are secure.
EPSTEIN: They are secure?
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, when I was in the US, I met with Democrat and Republican Congress Members as well as Senators, as well as the leadership of – Majority and Minority Leaders in both houses. They were all very supportive of the AUKUS proposals.
EPSTEIN: Prime Minister, I appreciate your time today. Thank you.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, Raf.
