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MELISSA CLARKE, HOST: It’s close to the one-year anniversary of the referendum for an Indigenous Voice to Parliament. The failure of the referendum has bruised many Indigenous Australians, as well as the Federal Government. But Labor is looking at other avenues of change to improve the lives of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders. The new Minister for Indigenous Australians, Malarndirri McCarthy, joined me a short time ago.

Malarndirri, thanks very much for joining us on Afternoon Briefing.

MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: Good to be here.

HOST: We’re nearly at the 12-month anniversary of the referendum for an Indigenous Voice to Parliament, we’re just a couple of days away now. What are your reflections now we’re coming up to this one-year milestone?

McCARTHY: Well, it certainly has been a time of reflection on many different occasions over the last twelve months, and I’m not surprised that we’re almost here again. It is a time where we need to recall the leadup to the referendum, and I certainly reflect on the 6 million Australians who supported it and the incredible work of those who lobbied for the Yes vote in the affirmative. But of course, you know, we didn’t win. And one of the things that I’ve certainly been focused on Mel, is how we move forward, always knowing that we respected the outcome of the referendum, but still conscious that there has been deep hurt over the last twelve months.

HOST: And it’s been a period where many Indigenous leaders, especially some of those who were really actively involved in building up the Uluru Statement from the Heart and involved in the campaign for the Yes vote, who’ve made a conscious decision to not speak publicly, to withdraw from the public space in the wake of the outcome. Some have come back to the public space and some haven’t. Going forward, is it going to be a time of generational change, do you think, for Indigenous leadership, given how momentous this occasion was, albeit not in the way that many had hoped?

McCARTHY: Well, I think every Australian has their story about the referendum, whether they were close to it, whether they weren’t. Everyone still had to vote and write Yes or No. So, it will be a time where, you know, I think it’s a time of reflection. And for those in the leadership who really fought hard for the Yes, I know that for many of them, they will speak in their own terms about the way they saw it and the way that perhaps they lament it could have gone. I certainly, for my part as Minister for Indigenous Australians acknowledge the incredible amount of work that took place in it but know that we have to keep going. And one of the things I’ve seen over history, and many of our First Nations leaders have seen over history, is that we’ve had disappointments along the way, Mel, but we keep going and we will certainly keep going in this instance.

HOST: And Mal, you’re certainly at the forefront now in the Ministerial role, and one of the things that has happened in your time is the establishment of a new Commissioner for First Nations Children. Can you tell me when that will be up and running and can you tell me what its priorities are going to be?

McCARTHY: We certainly want to see this position begin in the new year, Mel. It’s really important that we do establish it, and I do commend the work of organisations who have been very much at the forefront of pushing the government and the Parliament on this, in particular SNAICC and the CEO, Catherine Liddle, of that organisation. They have been a massive supporter of pushing this because we see that the high rates of removal of First Nations children across the country is not decreasing and that is a real concern when you look at Closing the Gap. But also, the high rates of detention of young people – 29 times more are First Nations children placed in detention in this country. So, I want to say this position as one that does tackle those areas specifically.

HOST: So, out-of-home care, rates of youth detention – how will the architecture of having a Commissioner be able to potentially make improvements in those areas in a way that the existing bodies and organisations that are in place haven’t been able to?

McCARTHY: Well, I met with human rights commissioners this week. You know, whether it’s the Race Discrimination Commissioner, the Social Justice Commissioner, Katie Kiss, certainly the Children’s Commissioner, Anne Hollonds, to actually talk about the issues still facing First Nations people and all agreed that the children and young people of Australia, in particular First Nations children, are the priority. So, this Commissioner will certainly be working with those Commissioners, but also with state and territory jurisdictions. And we also have what I’ve been working on lately with Pat Turner, as the co-chair of the Coalition of Peaks, the Closing the Gap.

HOST: So, is it the coordination factor that you’re most hopeful will have benefit, or is it this sort of intense focus on children specifically or a combination of those?

McCARTHY: Well, they’ll have to obviously work across those areas with the people that I’ve mentioned and the stakeholders more broadly across the Australian community, but they will need to deliver. We want to see the reduction in out-of-home care of children, First Nations children, and we want to see the reduction of young people in detention.

HOST: I want to move on to another issue, we have seen this week that your former colleague, now Independent Senator Fatima Payman, has announced that she’s setting up her own party to run candidates in the next election and she’s named that Australia’s Voice. And we’ve had a number of senior Indigenous leaders tell us both publicly and privately that they’re really frustrated that the name Australia’s Voice has been used. They raised issues suggesting that it carried on and took advantage of the fact that the idea of a Voice had been, a lot of work had been put into that by Indigenous Australians and that she was grabbing the work that had already been done and capitalising on it. Does the name Australia’s Voice for a new party bother you?

McCARTHY: Well, it was certainly a surprise, Melissa, I can say that. I was very surprised to see the name of the Voice as Senator Payman’s new party. I do think that if there are First Nations leaders out there who’ve expressed their views, I’m sure there are many across the Australian community who share those views. But for my part, it really is a matter for Senator Payman. She has to respond to the Australian community, in particular Western Australia, and let’s see where this goes. But clearly, seeing as we’re coming to the anniversary, the timing was very questionable.

HOST: Would you have preferred if she was going to go down the line of using the term Voice that she held off for a few more weeks? Would that have been more sensitive to the circumstances?

McCARTHY: Well look, I’m not too concerned, Melissa. Senator Payman made her decision some months ago to go as an independent and she made it clear then that she had other plans. So, it really isn’t of concern for me. I’m just trying to get on with my job and there’s a lot of things I have to do.

HOST: She’s indicated that the welfare of Indigenous Australians is something that she wants to work on and wants her party to work on. Do you think that’s something that you could work constructively with her on? And can I ask for your reflection on how much influence an independent might be able to have in that space, as opposed to if she’d remained within the Labor Party?

McCARTHY: Look, I’ve been trying to reach out to all politicians, whether it’s in the crossbenches or whether it’s independents like Senator Payman, and I’ll continue to do that. I’ll also certainly reach out to Senator Payman. It’s critical as you know, the Senate is all about numbers as well for us, Melissa. We don’t hold the numbers as the Labor Government in the Senate, but also my personal philosophy is to always try and work with people. Sometimes we’ll disagree and sometimes we’ll agree, but we’ve got to keep trying.

HOST: And that’s the same case with, say, the Coalition? How have you found working with them since you’ve started in the portfolio?

McCARTHY: Well, clearly this week has been a tough week. We’ve had to reject a number of motions and OPDs [Order for production of documents] that Senator Nampijinpa Price has brought to the Senate. But I’d like to think that when we move on and move out of here, then it’s another day and we’ve got to continue to keep working to try to reduce the poverty for First Nations people in Australia.

HOST: Well, there’s certainly plenty of work to do, as you say. So, thank you very much for taking us through the initiatives so far, and we’ll stay in touch and keep an eye on it. Malarndirri McCarthy, thank you very much.

McCARTHY: Thank you, Melissa.