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KIERAN GILBERT, HOST: I’m joined by the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Patrick Gorman. Thanks very much for your time. Overnight, Minister, Don Farrell, your counterpart, the Trade Minister, met with his Chinese counterpart, Wang Wentao, on the sidelines of the APEC Summit in Detroit. Apparently, Minister Wang confirmed that the recent visit to Beijing had seen the tariffs on timber removed. Is there confidence that more will be seen along these lines?

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: Well, I think it’s very welcome news for exporters across Australia that we are starting to see some of these restrictions removed. What we know is that the World Trade Organisation encourages bilateral resolution of these challenges rather than going through the disputes process. And we’re seeing from the work that Minister Don Farrell has been doing over the last year that we’re starting to see some results on that. That’s very welcome news. And as you said, that’s what we get out of some of these important summits, such as the APEC Trade Minister’s Meeting in Detroit. It’s an opportunity to get together with counterparts, to put forward Australia’s views. That’s what Minister Farrell’s been doing. And again, I think for timber exporters in this case, but for Australian exporters generally, we’ll continue to do what we can to advocate for great Australian products and to make sure that where there are unnecessary restrictions, they’re removed.

GILBERT: Yeah, well, the Chinese Minister confirmed to his Australian colleague that it was, in fact, that visit that got the timber tariff removed, as a direct result. Now, my understanding is Minister Wang has encouraged Australia to submit all documentation on the export of hay, which may be the next impediment to be removed. No doubt something and the Government would be pleased about?

GORMAN: I’ll leave it to Minister Farrell to announce when he submits such documentation. But I think this is a welcome step in the right direction for Australia, and indeed for the economic development of more than a billion people in China having access to great Australian products. So, we know that the best way to do diplomacy and to do trade diplomacy is to put Australia’s case. We’ve got a very good case to put when it comes to the quality of our products, when it comes to the benefits of a fair, rules-based trade system. That’s what Minister Farrell’s been doing. And quietly, quietly, we’re seeing those big results start to come through.

GILBERT: Minister, on a few other issues. You heard Andrew Clennell there raise this issue about cost of living and people’s pressures with interest rates and so on. Do they make it less likely that people will be able to be open or willing to listen to a campaign on something like a Voice to Parliament? They’re very different issues. But there’s no doubt people are under pressure on one; does it affect the other?

GORMAN: Look, when it comes to the question of the Voice to Parliament, and proper constitutional recognition of the First Peoples of this country, it’s never too early to do the right thing. And we can always look at well, ‘maybe we should push it off another year, maybe we should push it off another year.’ But the Uluru Statement from the Heart has now been out there for six years. It’s time that the Australian Government and the Australian people get to have their say on the request of that Statement. And that’s what we’ll do later this year.

But, if I look at the Parliament and the House of Representatives and the two big pieces of legislation that are in front of us next week. The first piece of legislation is, of course, the Voice, which we’re hoping to progress through the House of Representatives in this forthcoming sitting week. But the second big piece is, of course, the Appropriation Bills. Starting to implement, the measures that are in our Budget. Starting to get work done so we can do those sensible, measured, cost-of-living relief measures. Such as putting in place all of those things that come in from 1 July. Such as cheaper childcare for 1.2 million Australian families. Putting in place cheaper medicines. Halving the cost of medicines for people who rely on a yearly PBS script – saving about $180 a year. That’s big for people who do have those ongoing health conditions. We’ve got in the Budget again, the increases to Jobseeker; something again that Mr. Dutton hasn’t even said whether he’ll support. So, it is kind of weird sometimes when I sit in the Parliament and I see Mr. Dutton and his colleagues complain and complain about what the Government’s not doing on cost-of-living relief, and at the same time they’re voting against all of the measures that would make a real difference for Australian families.

GILBERT: Does the economic climate, though, make it more difficult for the Yes campaign?

GORMAN: I’ve got great faith in the Australian people that they will see, when they’re asked to vote in the referendum later this year, that the time has come. This is not a question about something just for the next six months or the next twelve months, where we’re feeling those big inflationary pressures, primarily out of Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine. I believe the Australian people will see this is about something bigger. This is about writing the next chapter of our story. I don’t believe that this is an ‘either/ or.’ I kind of think of it like this, and when I go to citizenship ceremonies in my electorate in Perth I talk about becoming a citizen of a second country doesn’t mean that you love your first country any less. It’s like having a second child; your capacity to love just grows. And I think when it comes to constitutional recognition, it doesn’t diminish anyone. Our capacity to love Australia just grows. Our capacity to be more than we are, while loving everything about Australia as it is today is there. And I’m really confident the Australian people will see through the scare campaigns, they’ll see through the misinformation that’s out there and they’ll make a decision about our shared future and about hope for what we can achieve if we do things differently, if we go through co-design processes, and if we actually recognise that we are stronger working together. And that’s what constitutional recognition is actually all about.

GILBERT: Up the AFR last week reported a stoush between Labor backbenchers and the RBA Governor. The RBA Governor making it clear, while wage increases haven’t been a main fuel of inflation to this point, they could be. Does the Government need to be more cognisant of those risks, particularly around the submissions on things like the minimum wage?

GORMAN: Well, I think, firstly, on that particular story, I need to note that that is a really disappointing leak that’s come out of that committee. Obviously by someone who was very deliberately trying to damage the Government and damage individual Government members. So, I’d say to whoever that was, and the Liberal Party at large; there’s plenty of ways to have a fight in Parliament, but breaching the confidentiality of a Government committee is not the way to do it. It’s disrespectful to your fellow Members of Parliament, it’s disrespectful to the RBA Governor, and it does make the operations of the Parliament less effective. I’ll I go to the RBA Governor’s on-the-record public statements, and he has publicly said that he does not see a wage prices spiral. He’s said that for a number of months. What we know at the moment is that wage growth is at about 3.7% per annum, inflation is at 7%. So wages are still tracking behind where inflation is at. We’re trying to get wages moving – we are unapologetic about that. I want to make sure that cleaners, security guards on the minimum wage get a decent pay increase. And I want to make sure that we can deliver things like the 15% wage increase for aged care workers. But any suggestion that those workers are the reason that we have these inflation problems is ridiculous.

GILBERT: But that being said, there are – and I’ve had a senior official in the Government tell me very clearly that this is a risk if it were to get out of control. The Government needs to be aware of that, surely?

GORMAN: There’s economic risks across the economy at the moment. We see imported inflation from a war in Europe. We see instability in global financial markets, in some parts coming out of tensions in the banking sector, primarily in the United States, and some parts coming out of the ongoing negotiations around the debt ceiling in the US. We have to look at a range of challenges. All of these, including the ones that you outlined, were part of our thinking as we carefully put together the Budget that we released just over two weeks ago. Making sure that where we acted, we could make sure that we were supporting people with sensible cost-of-living relief, and we could deliver on our plan to get wages moving with productivity enhancements. And if I think about the piece of work that the Prime Minister and the Government has released today around the Care and Support Economy Strategy, that’s actually about saying, ‘how do we make sure that we create good jobs with good productivity in these big, rapidly growing sectors of our economy, such as the care economy?’

GILBERT: Yeah, it is a massive ask. On that front, is it possible that the Government will have to look at other ways to sort of fund wage increases here? It looks like the private sector doesn’t keep up with where it needs to be in the care economy. The Government’s only got so much it can do. What other models can you look at to try and make this sustainable? In childcare, aged care, things like disability care, it’s all a similar workforce. How do you sustain that? How do you give the incentive to remain working in those fields?

GORMAN: Well, I think step one is to acknowledge the huge transformation that’s happening in our economy when it comes to the care economy. That’s why we’ve released this Draft Strategy, so we can get the thoughts of the Australian people and to do what we need to, to consult and then act. What we know is that over the next 30 years, the care economy workforce is going to double. That puts a huge range of pressures on our economy, but we also need that workforce to double.

So, that the care that we all rely upon at some point in our life, be it when we’re young, in childcare, or be it when we’re in our later years in aged care or any point in between, we need to make sure that those services are there for every Australian. So, it is a challenge to try and make sure that we can get these markets right, and the Care Economy strategy that’s released today, the Draft goes to those questions. It’s important that we get the regulatory framework right and look for further harmonisation across these sectors. And the Strategy goes to those questions too. And it’s also important that we acknowledge that this is going to be about a ten year piece of work. And that’s how we’ve outlined it in the Draft Strategy released today.

Because, if I look at where we’ve come from, we come from a place case where over the last ten years, childcare fees went up 41% over the last ten years. We had a Royal Commission report, an interim report that was titled ‘Neglect.’ We’ve basically got this huge challenge, and what we want to do is stop jumping from crisis to crisis, as the last Government did, and start planning for the future, delivering those stronger foundations for a better future for secure jobs in these industries and to make sure that we’ve got the workers that we need so that everyone can get the care they’re going to rely upon at some point in their life.

GILBERT: On to a couple of other issues, just to wrap up. Peter Dutton has said he’s open to compromising on the Government’s proposed changes to the Petroleum Resource Rent Tax. Basically, the tax specifically on on gas producers. But he wants to see the Government streamline approval processes for new gas projects. Is the Government open to that olive branch?

GORMAN: Well, the approvals framework we have is the same one that Peter Dutton thought was completely fine for the ten years that he was sitting around the Cabinet table. That’s just a fact. So, if I was to sum up Peter Dutton’s approach over his one year that he’s recently celebrated as Opposition Leader, if I sum it up in a word, that word would be ‘No’. He’s voted no to every serious proposal we’ve put forward. I’ll believe that he’s going to vote yes to these –

GILBERT: This is not no, is it? This is a compromise.

GORMAN: Well, I’ll believe that he is open to voting for more revenue through the Petroleum Resource Rent Tax when he votes yes for it on the floor of Parliament. If he’s got proper suggestions, then I’d expect him to put out that detail. I would expect him to put out exactly what that plan is. I’d expect him to put out costings. What he did last week, he didn’t do any of that. He didn’t put out any detail at all. He sort of floated an idea saying he’s open to a compromise if we agree to some form of conditions that he himself hasn’t asked articulated. So, I think your viewers will understand my scepticism that when Peter Dutton says he’s going to vote yes, I’ll believe it when I see it, and I don’t think I’m going to see it.

GILBERT: We’re almost out of time. But on your area new area of responsibility, you’re also now a Minister Assisting on the public sector. How do you make that politically palatable, boosting the public sector when you know it’s not always the most popular to say you’re going to expand the number of public servants, for example?

GORMAN: Well, firstly, let me say thank you to the public servants who keep Australia running. I think most of us, if we look at our lives, we will recognise that actually many of our friends and family members are, or have done work as, public servants. It’s a wonderful profession, one which I’m very pleased to be advocating for, because we need the best and the brightest and the people of the highest integrity to come and join the public sector. And that’s work I’m looking forward to doing with Katy Gallagher and the team. And I’m really honoured to have been given this opportunity by the Prime Minister.

If I look at my family history, my wife started her career working in the family’s queue at Centrelink. My great grandmother worked for the Tax Office, helping people access war widow pensions during World War II. Many Australians have proud stories of public service in their history or in their present. What I would say is that we need to start recognising it’s important to have a good, quality, professional public service. I celebrate them. And we also know that when times are tough or when things not going as we need, it’s the public sector that Governments run to to get good, quality, independent policy advice so we can deal with all these things. Including the work that we’re doing at the moment and releasing today on the Care Economy to make sure that we have that strategy designed, in coordination with the Australian people and the public service, to make sure that we prepare for the future.

GILBERT: Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister Pat Gorman. Thanks, we’ll talk to you soon.