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OLIVER PETERSON, HOST: I want to go to Canberra now. The Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Patrick Gorman, joins us from probably colder conditions. Good afternoon.

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: Good afternoon, Oly, I know you didn’t want a weather report from me, but it’s actually quite pleasant here in Canberra.

PETERSON: That’d be the first time, wouldn’t it Patrick?

GORMAN: But it’s not quite as warm as it is there.

PETERSON: It’s never warm in Canberra, is it?

GORMAN: Yep, look, I would say it’s gotten to mid twenties and lovely sunshine. So good, good for the good people of the Australian Capital Territory.

PETERSON: Talking of the good people of the Australian Capital Territory, obviously the people in the bigger house, the Senate today decided to censure Lidia Thorpe. But what does that all mean? She still remains as a senator, doesn’t she? Patrick? It’s not as though she has to go back to the Victorian people and say, you know, back me or sack me?

GORMAN: Well, a censure is a very serious decision when it’s done by either the House of Representatives or the Senate, and it was a serious decision that was taken today. It was the first day that the Senate has sat since that conduct, that very inappropriate conduct when the King was visiting Parliament a few weeks ago. It’s appropriate when people do the wrong thing, there has to be consequences, and that’s what the senators decided to do today. It’s up to senators themselves to discipline their own. That’s what they’ve done, and I think senators, well and truly understood what they were voting on. And I think it sends a clear message that, particularly when senators are representing the country, be it on our national stage with our head of state, or on the international stage, there are standards. And if you don’t meet those standards, there are consequences, and that’s the same in many workplaces. So I don’t know why we should be any different.

PETERSON: But shouldn’t there be consequences, then, if you’re not adhering into the standards or you’re missing plenty of days of work? For example, Lidia Thorpe hasn’t been sitting in the parliament for about a third of the days she’s required or meant to be there? I mean, should she still have a job, Patrick?

GORMAN: Well, some of those decisions are decisions that only rest in the hands of the Australian people, and in this case, the hands of the Victorian people. So it’s up to them when they next go to the polls. But yeah, look, I think if you have the privilege of having a vote in the parliament on behalf of other Australians, you should rock up and you should do your job and then justify how you voted and how you behaved.

PETERSON: The Treasurer today indicating it may be a cash policy for all essential businesses come 2026 – but aren’t all businesses essential, Patrick?

GORMAN: Well, I think we know there are some businesses that people will definitely need to be able to purchase things from if one of those digital systems goes down, or if people just choose to pay with cash. We know that about 94% of businesses in Australia continue to accept cash. Some have already gone cashless, and they can do that. But we think for those essential businesses, and we’re thinking about things like fuel, food and groceries, you want to make sure that people will always be able to use cash to get those essentials, and that’s what we’ve initiated today. And I think that is just good common sense. Cash has helped people pay for things in Australia for more than 100 years, it’s been a success, why get rid of it? And let’s just make sure that for those essentials, it’s locked in for the long term. And then also for businesses, then they can plan as well. I mean, that’s important –

PETERSON: Yeah, I just think every business is essential. And as he says, It’s good common sense for what might be an essential business, or aren’t all businesses essential?

GORMAN: Look, I think there’s some things that – and I’ll even say that to the good people who sell the advertising on 6PR – I don’t know if you need people to rock up with big piles of cash to pay for their ads. But for things that are customer facing, for things that people buy every day, for food, groceries, fuel, those sort of things, and probably even a beer at the pub. I would hate to get to a world where you can’t buy a beer at the pub with a you know, used to be able to do it with a $10 note. It’s bit hard to do that now –

PETERSON: – You need a 20.

GORMAN: Yeah, but you want to make sure that people can actually use cash. You know, about 1.5 million Australians predominantly do their transactions using cash. We want to make sure that they can continue to do so.

PETERSON: These are where things are still subjective, because you want to go the butcher, as you said, food before, you might want to go get your your medicines, obviously, from the from the pharmacy, you know, the pub, it’s a good example. I think they’re all essential. You’ve had a lot of success, or the government’s had a lot of success, sort of bashing up the supermarkets in recent times. Is that why the attention is now being put onto the banks? Is that why, you know, the government might see this, is this is maybe a win with the Australian people by saying, ‘oh, banks, or, you know, businesses pay cash, or we’re coming for you.’

GORMAN: Oh, look, we’ve, we have done quite a bit of work to make sure that the banking sector meets the expectations of the Australian people. We’ve been pretty clear about what we’re doing to make the grocery code mandatory to make sure there are fairer prices for farmers and more information for consumers when in the supermarket. But it was also pretty clear that if government didn’t act on this question of cash, then it might have gotten away from us, and then we would have the situation where people couldn’t use their preferred form of payment. And the payment that’s been, you know, for most of Australia’s Federation, the only form of payment you can use other than a cheque. We don’t want to lose that, so we’ve chosen to act, and I think that’s been a good thing. You’ve seen other countries around the world have these – France, Denmark, even the state of New York – they all have cash requirements that require people to have the right to paying cash. It’s sensible policy, and I think even the big banks would accept that we’re doing the right thing here, even if it’s not in their interest.

PETERSON: Now, plans to cut the number of international students looks set to be blocked by the Opposition. Are you disappointed in this, Patrick?

GORMAN: I’m not just disappointed, Oly, I’m confused. I sat in Parliament when Peter Dutton, as the Leader of the Liberal Party, said he was going to bring in international student caps. Now that’s not something in the way, way, way ago. That was something he said in May of this year, and he’s already backflipped on his own policy. I mean, we want to make sure that when the universities are selling those degrees to international students, they’re taking a bit of care and making sure those students have somewhere to live while they’re studying, and make sure that those universities are contributing to the housing stock so they’re not drawing on other parts of supply, making sure there is actually enough homes for everyone. And you know, we make no apology for the fact we want to return migration levels to back to pre pandemic levels. We make no apologies for wanting a managed system for the international education sector, and we wanted to, and I don’t know why, something that Peter Dutton said he would support and was one of his own policy initiatives just a few months ago, he’s now backtracking on. I don’t get it.

PETERSON: The Opposition, saying it’s a piecemeal approach, it’s only to serve the crisis of the government’s making, so they’ll make their decisions. Dean puts this though to you, Patrick; how much would a limit on international uni students, though, affect ECU City uni and student housing if it were to come in this international student cap?

GORMAN: Dean, we’ve released the numbers to each of the university so if you go to ECU’s website, on the international student page, it will tell you, but there’s hundreds of millions of dollars that’s going into that ECU City campus. I want to make sure that it’s got a lot of local, Western Australian students getting those great opportunities. You know, when we put the hundreds of millions of dollars in to build that new campus, the main reason we invest in education through the Commonwealth is to support our Australian population to get the skills and jobs of tomorrow. So I’m sure ECU – and if I think about the vice chancellors, all of the vice chancellors, you know, they’re very well paid, those vice chancellors. Some of are on more than a million bucks. They’re very smart. They’ve got lots of letters after their name. I am confident that they can handle this very modest change to international student numbers and still run world class universities.

PETERSON: And a very good afternoon to the incoming vice chancellor in Canberra. Bill Shorten, your colleague, is going to enjoy that sort of a salary soon, Patrick. Hey, how about the new survey result highlighting strong trust in Australian government public services. Did this one blow your socks off?

GORMAN: I think it’s really encouraging. We go out to the Australian public every year and we ask them, what do they think of public services, and I think that’s important. We’ve actually got to get feedback, because I’d rather know what’s not working and where do we need to improve. The things that surprised me in the survey though, Oly, the most trusted service providers in the Commonwealth, top three, Department of Foreign Affairs. Number two, Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. Number three, Medicare. That, to me, says that we’re doing quite a few things right, and obviously when it comes to people’s safety overseas or their health here in Australia, they’re pretty good things to see on the government report card that have been done well.

PETERSON: And before I let you go, Patrick, I’m going to have a crack at this, but I reckon I already know your answer. But I’m going to I’m going to persist anyway. If you took off your hat as Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Member for Perth, and you put on your old hat as State Director of the WA Labor Party, which election would you prefer to run first next year, the federal election, or the state election?

GORMAN: However it comes Oly, what I can guarantee is that the people of Western Australia, within the space of a couple of months will get the privilege to vote twice. They can vote for Roger Cook’s excellent team in the state parliament, they’ll be able to vote to re-elect an Albanese Labor Government. And I’m sure come June of next year, all your listeners will be pleased to know they won’t have to vote for an entire three years.

PETERSON: Alright, okay, it sounds like it’s going to be May. I still reckon Roger Cook will be here election night, March 8, holding the or he will be, anyway, holding the hand of Anthony Albanese, holding the hand of Anthony Albanese, Roger Cook, and then they launch into that May election. So that’s what I’m crystal-balling at the moment, Patrick.

GORMAN: Everyone’s got a theory.

PETERSON: I’m sure they do. You couldn’t possibly comment, though could you?

GORMAN: We’ll all find out next year.

PETERSON: Okay, alright, I’ll let you get back to things in Canberra. Appreciate your time as always. Thank you very much.

GORMAN: Thanks. Oly.