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TOM CONNELL, HOST: The two major parties aren’t agreeing on a lot at the moment, but electoral reforms are another matter. They’re set to pass laws that won’t come into effect until 2028. But Independents, Greens and others are saying it’s all just an attempt to block them out from entering or growing their size in the Parliament. Joining the panel now is the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Patrick Gorman, who usually comes with a prop. Now you could have come with the big fat book of legislation, which would have led me to this question. So just pretend you’ve got it. So much detail, how were you not open to a parliamentary inquiry to this? It’s significant change, why not let the sunlight in? You used to be about transparency when you were in opposition.

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: The great story about this electoral reform is that it has come out of a parliamentary inquiry. The Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters inquired into the 2022 election and inquired into the challenges of too much money washing around in our political system. It gave us a report that came down in November last year. We’ve been drafting legislation in response to that report, and in fact, in quite a unique set of circumstances, we’re using that report as the impact analysis requirement to meet the impact analysis requirements in the explanatory memorandum. It’s a good report. It outlines the path forward. We’ve put that legislation into the Parliament. I’m sure if we hadn’t put it into the Parliament, you’d have Independent members knocking on your door, Tom, telling us ‘why hasn’t the Government done it?’ We’ve done it. It’s there. It’s come out of a parliamentary inquiry.

CONNELL: They agree with a lot of it, but this seat spending cap is what they don’t like, because it allows the majors to outspend them nationally, and they can’t compete if you’re both spending the same in a seat. That wasn’t a specific recommendation of this joint committee. So why not open up the whole thing? It might be unintended consequences, whatever it is it doesn’t come into effect till 2028, why not let some sunlight in?

GORMAN: We’ve seen a number of jurisdictions in the Commonwealth of Australia implement spending caps. That’s been successful. It’s happening in Western Australia at the next state election. It is –

CONNELL: It’s said to actually keep Independents out in Victoria and New South Wales, that very thing that they’re complaining about.

GORMAN: It’s interesting because what we saw in the Parliament today was Independent members and the Greens voting to refer this off to yet another inquiry. I mean, we’ve had inquiries about electoral reform for decades and decades. We want to get something done. Now when it comes to the spending caps, if they don’t support spending caps they should just come out and say it. If the Independents don’t think there should be spending caps, they shouldn’t hide behind more parliamentary process. They should just say that they oppose spending caps. They want to see millions and millions of dollars spent in individual seats. Because I don’t think the public would like that, because there’s actually a bit of respect for voters here. I remember driving –

CONNELL: We love a big media spend in elections, so the more the better I say.

GORMAN: At least you’re open about your conflict of interest.

KIERAN GILBERT, HOST: Do you look at that poll today, and 47% of people surveyed in the Freshwater AFR poll suggests Peter Dutton would be preferable in dealing with Donald Trump, as opposed to Prime Minister Albanese at 36%. Is that a concern to you? Because I guess it goes to the idea that Mr. Dutton is seen as a strong leader, and possibly the times might suit him. Is that your concern?

GORMAN: Anyone who’s a leader has to deal with the leaders that are elected in other countries, but also you’ve got to deal with the circumstances in which they inherit. And I note that when we get to the next election, we will be able to talk to the Australian people about how we’ve repaired Australia’s international relationships across the board. I think we know how badly Peter Dutton damaged our relationship with the Pacific when he was making jokes about Pacific Island leaders when they were here visiting. He made those jokes just down the hall in the main committee room. We’ve seen Australia repair our trading relationships with key trading partners, including China. We’ll continue to do what I believe we’ve done very well, which is to build Australia’s international relationships.

GILBERT: Do you think majority government is still possible for Labor?

GORMAN: I am 100% in it to win it, I want to see a majority Labor Government. Yes, I do think it’s possible. I remember before the last election, people said we couldn’t do it then. There were polls out saying, ‘Labor might not be able to get to majority government.’ And we did. And not only did we get to majority government, but during this term we’ve increased that majority. I’m very confident that we can form a majority Labor government after the next election. And, even when we’re talking about these things, about how does Australia find its place in the world, people are really looking at who can maintain good, strong relationships with all of Australia’s key partners; be it the United States, the United Kingdom, Brazil, where the Prime Minister is right now. We have a very strong story to tell about how we’ve taken those relationships, where they needed a bit of love and attention, we’ve done that. And where they were strong, we’ve made them even stronger. We’ve done that even with AUKUS, it was under this Government that AUKUS was legislated in the Congress.

TRUDY MCINTOSH, HOST: Speaking of love and attention, Donald Trump certainly likes a bit of love and attention I reckon from allies, including Australia. Is there a reason why there wasn’t an outreach to Donald Trump directly in terms of a personal meeting before the US election? Keir Starmer after winning went to New York to meet Donald Trump before the election as essentially as a hedge to make sure he had a relationship. Why didn’t we do that?

GORMAN: We have a deep and broad relationship with the United States that isn’t connected to just one individual or one bilateral meeting –

MCINTOSH: But it would have helped wouldn’t it, to have a bit of facetime?

GORMAN: We had Australian representatives at the Republican ³Ô¹ÏÍøÕ¾ Committee convention. We’ve had Republican Congress Members here in the Australian Parliament visiting, deepening those ties. We’ve had, obviously, a conversation between Prime Minister Albanese and President-elect Trump, just a few days after that election result. We’ll keep doing what we always do, which is to deal with our friends and allies on a basis of equals, where we recognise that we’ve got interests, they’ve got interests., we’ll talk together. And of course, I’m sure when President Trump finds himself at international forums, or indeed, Prime Minister Albanese is visiting the United States –

MCINTOSH: Could go to Florida on the way home from Brazil, it’s not that far away.

GORMAN: I think we can –

MCINTOSH: He’s got his own plane. He doesn’t have to ask for an upgrade, that he allegedly never did.

OLIVIA CAISLEY, HOST: It is a good point. I mean, there is a difference between a phone call and actually being there in person in the room. Do you think that the Government should prioritise a visit in the new year?

GORMAN: We work with elected leaders, and indeed, we will do that with both President Trump and his entire administration. And I’m certain that after the inauguration, you will see quite a large amount of bilateral activity at different levels. We’ve had the US Secretary of Defense out here recently, that continues and we’ll continue to do that. Australia’s approach won’t change. We always advocate for deep relationships, particularly with our very good friends in the United States.

CONNELL: I’ve got a question via text, I don’t normally do this. Don’t start texting me, anyone that has my number. But, Jason Falinksi –

GORMAN: I’m going to send questions in the future.

CONNELL: He says, ‘you look too comfortable’ so he wanted to ask you this: do you think it is inappropriate for crossbenchers to be asking each other questions?

GORMAN: In my reflection on that interesting use of the standing orders that we saw today, Jason, through you Tom – now you’re like the Speaker, I’ve got to address the Speaker –

GILBERT: Mr Speaker.

GORMAN: Mr Speaker Connell.

CONNELL: Order.

GORMAN: What I would say to Jason and all of your keen viewers is that, of course, if Independent members want to use the standing orders in that way, they are welcome to do so, but they’ve got to be consistent with the standing orders. I thought it was a bit odd that very quickly, the Member for Kooyong stopped being compliant with the standing orders, and then switched to trying to turn her answer into a question of the Government, which again was a bit of an odd thing.

GILBERT: There you go.

CONNELL: Jason –

GORMAN: If that was a ministerial audition for her role in a future Liberal Cabinet at some point, I don’t think she did very well.

CONNELL: Jason thought you’d squirm out of that one, but it looks like he’s had a crack Jason. You’ll be back don’t worry. I know you’re not on sitting weeks Jason, we think of you every Monday. Thank you Patrick.

MCINTOSH: I don’t. You think of him every Monday?

CONNELL: That’s because that’s our regular slot. Okay, let’s go to a break, put me out of my misery here.